Intelligence Operative Vedran Rzehak | The Recalibrated Podcast | S01E07

Welcome to The Recalibrated. I'm your

host, Meade Kincke, and

I'm here to take us through

the journey of being in the service,

transitioning out, and

what today looks like.

Our guest, Vedran Rzehak, has served over

20 years as a military

liaison and support officer.

Operating at the intersection of

intelligence, security,

and international diplomacy,

he has worked alongside the UN, EU, U4,

and other international partners.

Currently, a military intelligence officer

with the Ministry of

Defence of Bosnia and Herzegovina,

Vedran supports multinational peace and

development missions, all in politically

sensitive, high-risk environments,

where discretion and precision matter.

Vedran, welcome to the show.

Glad to be here, sir.

Glad to have you. So let's just get into

it. Let's start with the why.

Why were you drawn to

military intelligence?

Well, my story begun. I

was a refugee in Croatia.

My mother got killed in August 1992.

And I started my eighth grade in school

in Croatia, Rijeka. I was a

refugee with family there.

A couple of my aunts

from Sarajevo were with me.

So it all really started with some kids

actually going to UK for six months to

refine their English language skills.

And I couldn't return. There was a

problem with my passport. So six months

turned into six years.

That's it. They just got the amount of

days missed. It was a decimal point.

Yeah, sounds about right.

So basically I was smuggled into UK with

I think the intention was for me to get a

good education and serve my purpose.

So back in 99 there was a

big need for translators.

Therefore I got deployed with a

just got sent back to Bosnia.

Started translating.

They needed translators.

Unfortunately, that market has been

killed. That job

trade has been killed off

by young people claiming their

translators and with

Google Translate and other

other apps that are

available for translation. So

you know having other skills

does matter and it does help.

I understand.

So let's start with kind of humble

beginnings. You've

touched on it a bit already, but

how did you end up being an executive

assistant for the MOD for

the Ministry of Defence?

Well, my career started on a project.

I met, I assisted through some

chance. I met a project manager and a UK

psychiatrist that were doing a project,

Tempest Mental Health and

Community it was called.

So I started translating at that project

and that's how my career started.

The follow up was TIPS project, which was

a software specifications done by the

subcontractor company, which was a local

company and they needed to

translate for Siemens, which was

the main contractor for that project. So

this was all about

new IDs being regulated

and all the data that comes

with it. New IDs like ID cards,

driving licenses and passports. So it was

all unified and it was a huge project

monitored by OHR, which is still here,

Office of High

Representative for those that don't know.

So you can Google it really. And that's

it. I mean, what I must

say, and this is really true,

nothing, absolutely no training in the

world can prepare you for what you

come to witness in

Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Yeah. I think the phrase war torn,

especially going from the

1980s is an understatement.

The thing is politicians rely on ethnic

ethnic

Turmoil, may be the word?

Yeah. I mean, they rely on the

support, ethnic support

by their pool of voters. So

Muslims tend to Muslims, Kratz as

Catholics tend to Kratz and Serbs as

Orthodox tend to Serbs.

So they are relying on their pool of

voters and it's quite a

dire situation. I mean,

absolutely nothing, absolutely no

training can prepare you for

what you are actually faced with

in Bosnia as a political environment. So

that's basically my way of saying,

I have no intentions of actually being a

politician until the

system changes. I mean,

it's just, it would be hypocritical of me

to actually start a

political career in this.

You're not planning on running for office

this winter.

Okay, fair enough.

Basically, the fact is Dayton, sorry,

Dayton peace agreement is

still something that everyone

turns back on and goes by. And that,

that agreement cemented what

is currently happening now.

And it needs to be changed, but for

something to change, there

needs to be a political will.

And there is no will to actually change

the current situation

because I think everybody's

happy with a lot of free money we're

getting. Just kind of at a

standstill, a lockstep at the

moment and nothing really. Absolutely,

absolutely. I understand. I

do. So I had a brief, I wasn't,

I wasn't either brief stint in

Afghanistan with the Dutch forces. That

wasn't very, very, very well.

That didn't go very well. But it's that

that capital

catapulted. I went from Captain to

Lieutenant Colonel in the space of a

month. So, whoa. Okay. That

wasn't fun at all, actually.

Was that like, were you were you informed

about this? Or they were just like,

here's the new uniform. You go and do

there is no uniform. I mean,

I wear a suit and I wear my

tactical 5.11 jacket all the time,

most of the time. So, you know, I don't

have a fancy uniform,

like, like the officers in UK and US, you

know, we, it's just, you

know, it's not supported

over here. So, you know, some people have

some people wear uniforms,

you know, some people don't.

I totally understand. Oh, goodness. So, I

mean, that sounds like a bit of a

whirlwind. I'm curious

with all of these, the touches of story,

what's something that with, you know,

being in Afghanistan

and all wonderful places around the

world, what's something that you

experienced or witnessed that

you went, oh, goodness, I'm so glad like

a smartphone was not

around. Well, the worst

experience from Afghanistan was an

American coming right at my tent. I mean,

I was actually in a tent

10 meters from the HQ and a US worker

with some company, you

know, for cleaning or whatever,

they were meant to clean the... Subcontractor?

clean the air conditioning. Oh, gotcha. It's like an

Afghani guy asking me,

you know, directly, where are the HQ? And

I'm like two miles that

way. And we're like 10 meters

away from the HQ. And this is kind of

hard, you know, a huge air

base, you know, so that was,

you know, that was a crazy experience.

I'm like, you know, do you vet these

people at all? And the

problem is, we got hit that night, we got

hit two miles that way,

you know, there was a mortar

actually activated. So you know, that was

that wasn't a nice

experience whatsoever. Yeah. I mean,

I understand Afghanistan has problems

with with vetting people. But

if you if you actually going

to employ people with you, you need to

check that check out their

background. And basically,

Only a little bit! You know, affiliation with

the local with the locals.

So, you know, that wasn't

a very nice experience whatsoever.

Now I've talked about this a

lot. Like, people talk about

what's dangerous, what's not, oh, this is

a threat. And I go, there is

nothing more threatening than

it's like a really, really mobile, well

trained three man mortar

team, because by the time it's

in, they're out, you know, that's it,

that's the whole play. And,

that's, that's just why like,

you must have felt like you were like on

a prank show, like candid

camera where you go like,

how did you even get here? No, I couldn't believe it.

I couldn't believe the question and the

cheek of it, you know,

where is the HQ? I mean, you know...

Your head just is on fire.

On an Air Force base with an American

citizen. And you're asking

a person within that base,

where's the HQ? I mean, the cheek of it,

I couldn't believe it.

So here's the thing. My NDAs forbid me,

my non-disclosure agreements forbid me

talking in details.

But the thing is that I'm

very proud to have done

is actually use, I used

Intel that was available for providing

Google, Google Earth

images of, of places that were

that should be of interest. And, you

know, so, you know,

it's, it's like, you know,

according to the Intel that was

available, I was actually

taking Google Earth photos of

sites that made and actually devising on

the course of action

that that was meant to take.

So, you know, not many people know that.

So there you are. That's the first time

I have actually spoken about this. Well,

there we go. I love that you're sharing.

So I know you kind of sort of stepped

away from the MOD.

Like, what, what drove that,

that decision to begin with? Well, the

thing is to be, to join the,

to join the UK military or, you know,

MI6, you know, you

need to be a UK citizen.

So that's one thing that I have a, I have

a problem with. I am

not a UK citizen. I didn't

get a UK citizenship. Still, I mean,

Mohammed Al Faid is

still waiting and he's like,

he's got Harrods under his name. So, you

know, actually, King

Charles would need to sign my

citizenship papers. So I don't think

that's going to happen

anytime soon. So there you are.

you never know, you never know

But, you know, I am proud to have

acquired the culture and,

and the mindset of British

British way of thinking, you know, so I'm

actually very happy about that. And I'm

very grateful for the

opportunity, opportunities that I was

given. I've been given a very good

education. I've been given

a head start on my career. And that was

all good. You know, I'm

very happy. And I remain

a royal servant to his majesty, the King.

I love it. So after having

kind of popped out and popped

back in, what, what drove the desire to

get back into the Ministry of Defense?

To be honest with you, I mean, I was

actually very happy

working, you know, very, you know,

I wasn't exposing myself through Ministry

of Interior, which is

the police, you know,

Ministry of Interior is the police in

Bosnia. That's the, that's

the Ministry that covers the

police matters. So, you know, through

that, I was actually

providing support for the UK and,

and the US Embassy in close protection detail

when needed. I mean,

these, these are, you know,

private outings, you know, when people

actually decide to go

privately to a pub or restaurant,

and they don't need the guys with

earpieces and stuff like

that. So to be honest with you,

I don't carry a weapon. The weapon

usually stays locked in

the vault in the embassy.

And people that know the code for it can

come within a blink of

an eye. So, you know,

I learned through my experience, that's

how to, how to, let me

find the word. And that's,

Oh, you're good. You're good.

I learned through experience

that downscaling, I mean,

it's just, it's just like using your

language skills. And just

like kind of calming the

situation. Always. I mean, people love to show

off with their guns. But

it takes a special kind of

character to actually pull out a gun in

a, in a crowded pub or

restaurant. Yeah, intent,

it counts for before everything. They

like to flash it, but you know, yeah,

mouthy is not action.

That's not, that's right. That's right.

And the thing is, and thing

is, I learned by experience,

that de-escalation is the best course of

action to take, because,

you know, there is no legal

complications afterwards. Only once did I

have such a, you know, I had to like,

physically actually, take a physical

course of action. And

then we, then the police got

Involved. They got involved. And,

you know, that wasn't very

nice, you know. And I managed to

actually get out of that sticky situation

with the subject still

intact. So that was a successful

story. But, you know, if, you know, by

choice, involving the local law

enforcement, by choice,

is usually the best way to do it.

Yeah well, I've said this a lot

as well. And I, you've, you've

banged on it perfectly. The, you know,

the thing about you can't be

involved in a fight if you're

not there. And, you know, a picture

walking down the street and

like, there's kind of a man

muttering to himself and he's, you know,

looking very aggressive and

all of that. And he's on the

pavement. Well, if you cross to the other

side of the road, you can't

be involved. He's not there.

And there's so much to be said about the

kind of sophomoric, like

the very young man's like,

I want to get into a fight. But the

problem is that young man has never

really been in a fight

because anyone who have will tell you

it's not fun. There's

nothing fun about being stabbed.

There's nothing fun about having, you

know, job broken or anything

like that. And people don't

necessarily think that through. And I

think it's a vital thing to, to, to

showcase that. And thank

you for saying so. It's just kids, you

know, it's kids that

actually are, gets, get their,

through their parents, they get, get,

get, get the actual go ahead

to, to have a firearms license.

So, you know, here's the process to

actually get a firearms license. First,

you need to apply for it.

Then you go through medical testing,

psychiatrist, psychologist,

MPLs, and then the inspectors actually go

to your neighbourhood, neighbourhood,

and ask about your character. So it's

not, it's not an easy

thing to get. But you know,

like anywhere else, you know, corruption

is, is, is possible. And

some people actually get

a firearms license without the proper,

proper channels to go

through. So, you know,

it's okay. I mean, you know, the fact is

the only reason why, why you can apply

for firearms license

is to protect yourself. And if you need

protection, so, you know, I

always say to my colleagues,

if it's not an official firearm issued

by, by, by, by my, by my employers, I

really don't need it.

It's just, it's just another headache and

it's asking for trouble, you know?

Yeah. No, I understand. Oh goodness.

So 522 is actually, is, is the caliber

that that's, that's nicely

situated in, in, in the vault

of the embassy and that we can rely on. If need be.

Yeah. If needed. So there you are.

If need be indeed. Wonderful. I'll say to

everyone watching at home,

if you love hearing what,

what we're doing as much as we love doing it,

be sure to smash

that subscribe button.

And, you know, I'll say today, you know,

you've, you've gone on

ridiculous journeys and, and

been all over the entire planet. What's,

what's your mission now?

Well, the secret is, the secret is, is

that I'm more or less

retired. I'm, I'm getting on.

The only income that I have is from a

family pension

pension and some disability

allowance. But I am looking for some,

some employment soon.

The thing is, you know,

a lot of people, I mean, so either

Bosnia and Herzegovina, I mean, it's not a

secret. And this is,

this is actually true. It's regarded as

the biggest holiday

camp in the world. I mean,

the international mission is still

present. But there is no actual, thank

God, there is no actual

physical or real fighting going on. So

the position, I mean, the mission is

going on 30 years now.

And it's like, you know, I mean, it's,

it's just like, you know,

yeah, whatever,

I'm happy to take the money. Yeah. So, so

picture this, our OCE P3 position,

you get 5,000 Dollars a month, plus 200 Euros

per day for living

expenses. So we're talking about

12,000 Euros a month, clean tax free

salary. So who would want to,

who would want to leave that?

No, I understand. So they are.

Yeah, there's a lot to be

said about boring security.

The thing is, UNDP, OCE, all these, all

these organisations,

they're all about roundtables

and discussing ways how to progress. And

there is actually no progress being made.

I don't think anyone is listening or

actually trying to, to listen

to these, to these proposals.

And I'm sorry to hear, to say, say this,

but you know, it's very ineffective.

Hmm. Well, you've mentioned that you're

not planning on running

for office, but it sounds

like maybe you're the man for the task.

No, I mean, I'm not a

hypocrite. I don't support the system.

And I don't think that anyone can be

successful as a politician

in this, you know, within this

system. I mean, there's, you know,

there's nothing to be done

until the system changes. So, you know, really, you know,

I have no political aspirations whatsoever.

I understand. Well, this all starts with

one. We can, we can hope for that.

Well, as I, as they say, hope dies last.

So there you are.

Fair enough. Well, how about this? So

over, you know, the, the

past decades, how, how has your

identity changed, you know, coming from

being kind of pinballed around going to

England, coming back

to, to kind of the Balkans? What, what,

what has it felt like for you?

Last time, last time I visited

UK was 2015. I actually got a

job, job. And the problem is,

you couldn't open a bank account

without a proof of address,

because I was, I was actually

a renting a room in near, near Guildhall,

I think it was, was the

place. Yeah, it's, it's not,

it's, it's not, it's not something that I

remember. So the problem

is, you know, I got told by my Oh no, moreover, I was meaning, like...

friends, Lieutenant Colonel, Stephen

Croft, then he said to

me, you know, to open a bank

account in the UK as a foreigner, you need to

be a Russian oligarch

or so there you are.

No, I understand. I'm moreover meaning,

like, as far as your

personal identity of,

like, lessons learned and things and how

is how is your personal journey been?

Well, personal, I mean, I'm not sure

exactly what you're asking, but you know,

the identity, you know,

some things stay with you. Sure. And

experience stays with you.

But the fact is, you know, I am

a Catholic, my

grandmother and my mother choose

to baptise me as a Catholic. So I tend

to, you know, I try to

honour their, their choice

with that. So, you know, being, being

sent a certificate of

baptisme in '98 in UK as a Catholic

wasn't very,

wasn't the greatest experience

for me, to be honest, but never mind, you

know, if I understand,

you know, the thing is,

it was still fresh from the Northern

Ireland, I mean, the

Northern Ireland conflict

is like, you know, really, really stupid,

you know, but I

understand, I understand the fear,

and I understand that it's not, it's not

a thing to be. So basically, my identity,

being a Croat is not easy. Sarajevo is a

majority Muslim population, and being

Catholic is not easy.

The fact is that every, every side

actually took their side and everybody

warred against everybody,

you know, it's, you know, it's something

that, you know, comes

with, with the territory,

you know, something that they get used

to, which is why what,

which is why I said what I said,

no amount of training can prepare you for

what you are actually

about to face in Bosnia and

Herzegovina. I understand. And it's like,

you know, walking down the main street,

yeah, very easy, very, you become

schizophrenic, pyromidal schizophrenic,

very easy, because people

tend to speak very loudly while they're

walking around the

street. And that's not something

that happens in the UK, does it?

No, it's much the opposite. Like you

already know the joke that we

always say is like, oh, you know, going

on in the street like the

French or the Italians, like, you

know, it's that kind of thing.

Yap, yap, yap, yap. It's like giving it this.

It's that friendly banter, mate.

Yeah, exactly. But not not being loud.

Like, that's not not

traditional, as far as that goes.

That actually does bring up another

query. Like, what, what strengths from

your service? Do you

feel like serve you well in your in your

every day? What what

particularly aiming with this question?

Meaning, like things that say someone

that worked at a coffee

house would not have had your

experiences. So, you know, your

perception of the world, like

things that made you stronger,

made you better. What what have you drawn

from all your kind

of military and intelligence

experiences? The thing is, I think,

once you give your word to someone,

it actually counts for something, to me

at least, you know,

people are, you know, it's a

gentleman's agreement, when you shake

someone's hand, and give

someone your word. I think,

for me, at least, it is something that

you follow through, no

matter what, you know,

it doesn't matter what circumstances you find Integrity above all else.

yourself in, your word is your

word. And it's something that

actually matters. So as a close

protection officer, I mean, you know,

I've, I've served with

a few people as a close protection

officer. Yeah. The thing is,

you know, my first client was

Rod Rastan. He was actually, then then it

was IPTF,

International Police Task Force,

back in 1999. So he was head of, you

know, Chief of Special Response Unit,

with regards to human rights being

violated by police officers. So, yeah.

Being a, I can see why people might have

him kind of marked. That's not not an

easy situation to be

in. The thing is, you know, being on his

detail, I mean, the guy's a

Baha'i. He's of Iranian descent.

And he was actually studying, and he got

his PhD from London

School of Economics in law.

So basically, he went on to become a

system prosecutor at The Hague.

Oh, gotcha.

He went from IPTF to EUPM, a brief stint

in Cyprus, and then back to The Hague as

a system prosecutor.

We're still in touch. That's what I can

say. He's a good man. He is

a good man. But the thing is,

you have to understand that you don't get

any, you don't get to make many friends

in this line of profession, especially

within the local community.

The fact is, international community and

people that actually do some

real work are not viewed as allies. And

the fact is, you know,

what's happening in Gaza

is not something you, you are often asked

to comment on that. And I try not to,

particularly because of my colleagues And that's okay. That's okay.

that are of Muslim descent.

Because there is a difference between Sunni and Yeah, and there's no need to get into it.

Shi'ite, like in Christianity,

there is a difference between Sunni and

Shi'ite Muslims. And you

have to understand that

Muslims in Bosnia and Herzegovina are

Sunni, and they're not

allowed to interpret Quran

and the writings of Quran. So that's

something you should know,

should be aware of at least.

I understand. So you've kind of touched

on it already. But what

does your next chapter look

like? Are you planning on, say, starting

your own business as far

as personal protection?

Starting your own business in Bosnia and

Herzegovina or anywhere is a huge gamble.

And you need to have good finance. So

that's not an option for

me. I'm not that brave. Sorry.

I mean, I'm not an entrepreneur, and I'm

not thinking of actually

starting my own company.

But, you know, I'm exploring options for

Lockheed Martin through a connection.

And I'm exploring options with different

companies as an executive assistant.

I am experienced administrator and

project assistant. And should anyone

look for an effective and efficient

communicator and executive

assistant, please contact me.

I'm open to negotiations and to discuss

potential employment.

I love it. I'm not looking for management

positions, if that's what you're asking.

No, this was more so just a broad stroke

to understand what's on

the plate next for you.

So I'll ask this one as well. What do you

want people to

understand, like, you know,

think civilian world. What do you want

people to understand about, you know,

your experiences or,

in general, the military and intelligence

community that they probably don't know?

The fact is, I mean, kids don't watch

Steven Seagal movies. I

mean, I mean, I'm actually

going early with this because you told me

it's going to happen. So kids,

well, we'll get to that in a moment.

Steven Seagal, Jean-Claude Van Damme, and Mr.

Schwarzenegger don't think by any means,

I mean, these it's,

they're made for entertainment

purposes and entertainment purposes. And

you will learn very

fast. If you do ever join

the forces, armed forces, you will learn

very, very fast that it's

not a one man show. And no,

you cannot actually beat the whole army

by yourself. I mean, you

know, it's just, you know,

so, so stupidly inaccurate, inaccurate,

that, you know, I mean,

I've, I never thought it would be

possible. I mean, my, my, my common sense

dictates me to understand

that one person can't beat

like, you know, 100 soldiers within two hours. Well, I say this...

I say this quite...

I say this quite often, but common sense is not

common. You know what I'm saying? Okay.

You know the saying common

sense cannot be taught and

experience can it be, cannot be bought.

You know, that saying,

right? Yeah, I do. So, you know,

I need, I need to not comment further on that.

No, no need to, but

you've touched on it and we'll

get into it. But what's, what's a telly

show or film that's either,

let's say so bad that it's

hilarious or so, or even like so

accurate, like going the other way that

you go, Oh no, they really

nailed it on the head, like relevant to

your experience.

Irrelevant to my experience.

Oh no, relevant. Relevant to my experience.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Well, I'll tell you what my favourite movie is.

Yeah. Maybe I'm getting ahead of time

ahead of, ahead of it. But

my favourite movie is actually

"Rules Of Engagement", because it actually

shows clearly

how some people are prepared

to scapegoat an honourable officer or

people actually serving their

country for political reasons.

Okay.

It's so easy. It's so easy to throw a

man's career under a bus just

because you want to get ahead

or you want to find a scapegoat for, for,

for, for something

that's not comfortable.

Um, so basically, you know, that's pretty

much, much it. You know,

I, I am actually,

I'm just waiting for someone to, to try that

on me.

Let's hope that's not the case. There is no honour

among, among thieves or politicians, you

know, I, I'm fully aware of

that. So, you know, it just,

you know, it's just a very, very, very

bad thing over here. And,

you know, I mean, perhaps,

uh, "A Few Good Men", that's not a bad

movie either. "A Few Good Men" with Tom Cruise. Do you feel like that one's kind of

hit it on the head as

far as procedure and things? I mean, you want the truth. You

can't handle the truth, man. That's,

that's a great line.

You know, that it's very true. You know,

the thing is that the

sheer arrogance, um, that can

be actually done and portrayed only by

Nick Nicholson, Jack

Nicholson. You know, it's just,

you know, it just perfect. You know,

I mean, I love it.

No, that's brilliant.

so they are, you know, I mean, if I'm, if

I'm getting ahead too

much, please, uh, please, uh,

No, good sir. No, this is all brilliant. But I

mean, that, that concludes

this. I mean, thank you so

much for coming, Vedran, and for people looking

to connect with you, uh,

how is best to find you?

I'm available in LinkedIn. Um, anyone who

wants to, anyone who wants

to connect, um, is free. Um,

you know, I, I mean, I, I operate under

present laws and obligations

that I have. So, uh, to me,

as a citizen of Bosnia and Herzegovina

and Croatia, um, laws apply, um, and to

US citizens as well.

So anything that is within legal

boundaries, um, of actually assisting or

doing, I, you know, I will

happily do, uh, and provide for, um, with

no, actually, you know,

it's, it's my job. Okay. So,

um, strategic, uh, partnerships, uh, are

very welcome. Um, anyone

looking to do business in

Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina, or

anywhere in EU, you know, please contact

me. Uh, I'll do anything

in my power to assist you, um, and help

you. Um, you know, and no,

you know, uh, you know, I don't,

I don't ask for extra cash or,

financial, um, you know, I'm

not, I'm not corrupt. So there

you are. I mean, if I can, if something

can be done, um, and it is

within the legal par,

parametres, um, you

know, I will gladly do it.

So there you are.

I love it. Well, we have more brilliant

stories coming soon. And if

you'd like to support the,

uh, show directly, please

join The Tribe on Patreon.

Cheers all.