Welcome to The Recalibrated. I'm your
host, Meade Kincke, and
I'm here to take us through
the journey of being in the service,
transitioning out, and
what today looks like.
Our guest, Vedran Rzehak, has served over
20 years as a military
liaison and support officer.
Operating at the intersection of
intelligence, security,
and international diplomacy,
he has worked alongside the UN, EU, U4,
and other international partners.
Currently, a military intelligence officer
with the Ministry of
Defence of Bosnia and Herzegovina,
Vedran supports multinational peace and
development missions, all in politically
sensitive, high-risk environments,
where discretion and precision matter.
Vedran, welcome to the show.
Glad to be here, sir.
Glad to have you. So let's just get into
it. Let's start with the why.
Why were you drawn to
military intelligence?
Well, my story begun. I
was a refugee in Croatia.
My mother got killed in August 1992.
And I started my eighth grade in school
in Croatia, Rijeka. I was a
refugee with family there.
A couple of my aunts
from Sarajevo were with me.
So it all really started with some kids
actually going to UK for six months to
refine their English language skills.
And I couldn't return. There was a
problem with my passport. So six months
turned into six years.
That's it. They just got the amount of
days missed. It was a decimal point.
Yeah, sounds about right.
So basically I was smuggled into UK with
I think the intention was for me to get a
good education and serve my purpose.
So back in 99 there was a
big need for translators.
Therefore I got deployed with a
just got sent back to Bosnia.
Started translating.
They needed translators.
Unfortunately, that market has been
killed. That job
trade has been killed off
by young people claiming their
translators and with
Google Translate and other
other apps that are
available for translation. So
you know having other skills
does matter and it does help.
I understand.
So let's start with kind of humble
beginnings. You've
touched on it a bit already, but
how did you end up being an executive
assistant for the MOD for
the Ministry of Defence?
Well, my career started on a project.
I met, I assisted through some
chance. I met a project manager and a UK
psychiatrist that were doing a project,
Tempest Mental Health and
Community it was called.
So I started translating at that project
and that's how my career started.
The follow up was TIPS project, which was
a software specifications done by the
subcontractor company, which was a local
company and they needed to
translate for Siemens, which was
the main contractor for that project. So
this was all about
new IDs being regulated
and all the data that comes
with it. New IDs like ID cards,
driving licenses and passports. So it was
all unified and it was a huge project
monitored by OHR, which is still here,
Office of High
Representative for those that don't know.
So you can Google it really. And that's
it. I mean, what I must
say, and this is really true,
nothing, absolutely no training in the
world can prepare you for what you
come to witness in
Bosnia and Herzegovina.
Yeah. I think the phrase war torn,
especially going from the
1980s is an understatement.
The thing is politicians rely on ethnic
ethnic
Turmoil, may be the word?
Yeah. I mean, they rely on the
support, ethnic support
by their pool of voters. So
Muslims tend to Muslims, Kratz as
Catholics tend to Kratz and Serbs as
Orthodox tend to Serbs.
So they are relying on their pool of
voters and it's quite a
dire situation. I mean,
absolutely nothing, absolutely no
training can prepare you for
what you are actually faced with
in Bosnia as a political environment. So
that's basically my way of saying,
I have no intentions of actually being a
politician until the
system changes. I mean,
it's just, it would be hypocritical of me
to actually start a
political career in this.
You're not planning on running for office
this winter.
Okay, fair enough.
Basically, the fact is Dayton, sorry,
Dayton peace agreement is
still something that everyone
turns back on and goes by. And that,
that agreement cemented what
is currently happening now.
And it needs to be changed, but for
something to change, there
needs to be a political will.
And there is no will to actually change
the current situation
because I think everybody's
happy with a lot of free money we're
getting. Just kind of at a
standstill, a lockstep at the
moment and nothing really. Absolutely,
absolutely. I understand. I
do. So I had a brief, I wasn't,
I wasn't either brief stint in
Afghanistan with the Dutch forces. That
wasn't very, very, very well.
That didn't go very well. But it's that
that capital
catapulted. I went from Captain to
Lieutenant Colonel in the space of a
month. So, whoa. Okay. That
wasn't fun at all, actually.
Was that like, were you were you informed
about this? Or they were just like,
here's the new uniform. You go and do
there is no uniform. I mean,
I wear a suit and I wear my
tactical 5.11 jacket all the time,
most of the time. So, you know, I don't
have a fancy uniform,
like, like the officers in UK and US, you
know, we, it's just, you
know, it's not supported
over here. So, you know, some people have
some people wear uniforms,
you know, some people don't.
I totally understand. Oh, goodness. So, I
mean, that sounds like a bit of a
whirlwind. I'm curious
with all of these, the touches of story,
what's something that with, you know,
being in Afghanistan
and all wonderful places around the
world, what's something that you
experienced or witnessed that
you went, oh, goodness, I'm so glad like
a smartphone was not
around. Well, the worst
experience from Afghanistan was an
American coming right at my tent. I mean,
I was actually in a tent
10 meters from the HQ and a US worker
with some company, you
know, for cleaning or whatever,
they were meant to clean the... Subcontractor?
clean the air conditioning. Oh, gotcha. It's like an
Afghani guy asking me,
you know, directly, where are the HQ? And
I'm like two miles that
way. And we're like 10 meters
away from the HQ. And this is kind of
hard, you know, a huge air
base, you know, so that was,
you know, that was a crazy experience.
I'm like, you know, do you vet these
people at all? And the
problem is, we got hit that night, we got
hit two miles that way,
you know, there was a mortar
actually activated. So you know, that was
that wasn't a nice
experience whatsoever. Yeah. I mean,
I understand Afghanistan has problems
with with vetting people. But
if you if you actually going
to employ people with you, you need to
check that check out their
background. And basically,
Only a little bit! You know, affiliation with
the local with the locals.
So, you know, that wasn't
a very nice experience whatsoever.
Now I've talked about this a
lot. Like, people talk about
what's dangerous, what's not, oh, this is
a threat. And I go, there is
nothing more threatening than
it's like a really, really mobile, well
trained three man mortar
team, because by the time it's
in, they're out, you know, that's it,
that's the whole play. And,
that's, that's just why like,
you must have felt like you were like on
a prank show, like candid
camera where you go like,
how did you even get here? No, I couldn't believe it.
I couldn't believe the question and the
cheek of it, you know,
where is the HQ? I mean, you know...
Your head just is on fire.
On an Air Force base with an American
citizen. And you're asking
a person within that base,
where's the HQ? I mean, the cheek of it,
I couldn't believe it.
So here's the thing. My NDAs forbid me,
my non-disclosure agreements forbid me
talking in details.
But the thing is that I'm
very proud to have done
is actually use, I used
Intel that was available for providing
Google, Google Earth
images of, of places that were
that should be of interest. And, you
know, so, you know,
it's, it's like, you know,
according to the Intel that was
available, I was actually
taking Google Earth photos of
sites that made and actually devising on
the course of action
that that was meant to take.
So, you know, not many people know that.
So there you are. That's the first time
I have actually spoken about this. Well,
there we go. I love that you're sharing.
So I know you kind of sort of stepped
away from the MOD.
Like, what, what drove that,
that decision to begin with? Well, the
thing is to be, to join the,
to join the UK military or, you know,
MI6, you know, you
need to be a UK citizen.
So that's one thing that I have a, I have
a problem with. I am
not a UK citizen. I didn't
get a UK citizenship. Still, I mean,
Mohammed Al Faid is
still waiting and he's like,
he's got Harrods under his name. So, you
know, actually, King
Charles would need to sign my
citizenship papers. So I don't think
that's going to happen
anytime soon. So there you are.
you never know, you never know
But, you know, I am proud to have
acquired the culture and,
and the mindset of British
British way of thinking, you know, so I'm
actually very happy about that. And I'm
very grateful for the
opportunity, opportunities that I was
given. I've been given a very good
education. I've been given
a head start on my career. And that was
all good. You know, I'm
very happy. And I remain
a royal servant to his majesty, the King.
I love it. So after having
kind of popped out and popped
back in, what, what drove the desire to
get back into the Ministry of Defense?
To be honest with you, I mean, I was
actually very happy
working, you know, very, you know,
I wasn't exposing myself through Ministry
of Interior, which is
the police, you know,
Ministry of Interior is the police in
Bosnia. That's the, that's
the Ministry that covers the
police matters. So, you know, through
that, I was actually
providing support for the UK and,
and the US Embassy in close protection detail
when needed. I mean,
these, these are, you know,
private outings, you know, when people
actually decide to go
privately to a pub or restaurant,
and they don't need the guys with
earpieces and stuff like
that. So to be honest with you,
I don't carry a weapon. The weapon
usually stays locked in
the vault in the embassy.
And people that know the code for it can
come within a blink of
an eye. So, you know,
I learned through my experience, that's
how to, how to, let me
find the word. And that's,
Oh, you're good. You're good.
I learned through experience
that downscaling, I mean,
it's just, it's just like using your
language skills. And just
like kind of calming the
situation. Always. I mean, people love to show
off with their guns. But
it takes a special kind of
character to actually pull out a gun in
a, in a crowded pub or
restaurant. Yeah, intent,
it counts for before everything. They
like to flash it, but you know, yeah,
mouthy is not action.
That's not, that's right. That's right.
And the thing is, and thing
is, I learned by experience,
that de-escalation is the best course of
action to take, because,
you know, there is no legal
complications afterwards. Only once did I
have such a, you know, I had to like,
physically actually, take a physical
course of action. And
then we, then the police got
Involved. They got involved. And,
you know, that wasn't very
nice, you know. And I managed to
actually get out of that sticky situation
with the subject still
intact. So that was a successful
story. But, you know, if, you know, by
choice, involving the local law
enforcement, by choice,
is usually the best way to do it.
Yeah well, I've said this a lot
as well. And I, you've, you've
banged on it perfectly. The, you know,
the thing about you can't be
involved in a fight if you're
not there. And, you know, a picture
walking down the street and
like, there's kind of a man
muttering to himself and he's, you know,
looking very aggressive and
all of that. And he's on the
pavement. Well, if you cross to the other
side of the road, you can't
be involved. He's not there.
And there's so much to be said about the
kind of sophomoric, like
the very young man's like,
I want to get into a fight. But the
problem is that young man has never
really been in a fight
because anyone who have will tell you
it's not fun. There's
nothing fun about being stabbed.
There's nothing fun about having, you
know, job broken or anything
like that. And people don't
necessarily think that through. And I
think it's a vital thing to, to, to
showcase that. And thank
you for saying so. It's just kids, you
know, it's kids that
actually are, gets, get their,
through their parents, they get, get,
get, get the actual go ahead
to, to have a firearms license.
So, you know, here's the process to
actually get a firearms license. First,
you need to apply for it.
Then you go through medical testing,
psychiatrist, psychologist,
MPLs, and then the inspectors actually go
to your neighbourhood, neighbourhood,
and ask about your character. So it's
not, it's not an easy
thing to get. But you know,
like anywhere else, you know, corruption
is, is, is possible. And
some people actually get
a firearms license without the proper,
proper channels to go
through. So, you know,
it's okay. I mean, you know, the fact is
the only reason why, why you can apply
for firearms license
is to protect yourself. And if you need
protection, so, you know, I
always say to my colleagues,
if it's not an official firearm issued
by, by, by, by my, by my employers, I
really don't need it.
It's just, it's just another headache and
it's asking for trouble, you know?
Yeah. No, I understand. Oh goodness.
So 522 is actually, is, is the caliber
that that's, that's nicely
situated in, in, in the vault
of the embassy and that we can rely on. If need be.
Yeah. If needed. So there you are.
If need be indeed. Wonderful. I'll say to
everyone watching at home,
if you love hearing what,
what we're doing as much as we love doing it,
be sure to smash
that subscribe button.
And, you know, I'll say today, you know,
you've, you've gone on
ridiculous journeys and, and
been all over the entire planet. What's,
what's your mission now?
Well, the secret is, the secret is, is
that I'm more or less
retired. I'm, I'm getting on.
The only income that I have is from a
family pension
pension and some disability
allowance. But I am looking for some,
some employment soon.
The thing is, you know,
a lot of people, I mean, so either
Bosnia and Herzegovina, I mean, it's not a
secret. And this is,
this is actually true. It's regarded as
the biggest holiday
camp in the world. I mean,
the international mission is still
present. But there is no actual, thank
God, there is no actual
physical or real fighting going on. So
the position, I mean, the mission is
going on 30 years now.
And it's like, you know, I mean, it's,
it's just like, you know,
yeah, whatever,
I'm happy to take the money. Yeah. So, so
picture this, our OCE P3 position,
you get 5,000 Dollars a month, plus 200 Euros
per day for living
expenses. So we're talking about
12,000 Euros a month, clean tax free
salary. So who would want to,
who would want to leave that?
No, I understand. So they are.
Yeah, there's a lot to be
said about boring security.
The thing is, UNDP, OCE, all these, all
these organisations,
they're all about roundtables
and discussing ways how to progress. And
there is actually no progress being made.
I don't think anyone is listening or
actually trying to, to listen
to these, to these proposals.
And I'm sorry to hear, to say, say this,
but you know, it's very ineffective.
Hmm. Well, you've mentioned that you're
not planning on running
for office, but it sounds
like maybe you're the man for the task.
No, I mean, I'm not a
hypocrite. I don't support the system.
And I don't think that anyone can be
successful as a politician
in this, you know, within this
system. I mean, there's, you know,
there's nothing to be done
until the system changes. So, you know, really, you know,
I have no political aspirations whatsoever.
I understand. Well, this all starts with
one. We can, we can hope for that.
Well, as I, as they say, hope dies last.
So there you are.
Fair enough. Well, how about this? So
over, you know, the, the
past decades, how, how has your
identity changed, you know, coming from
being kind of pinballed around going to
England, coming back
to, to kind of the Balkans? What, what,
what has it felt like for you?
Last time, last time I visited
UK was 2015. I actually got a
job, job. And the problem is,
you couldn't open a bank account
without a proof of address,
because I was, I was actually
a renting a room in near, near Guildhall,
I think it was, was the
place. Yeah, it's, it's not,
it's, it's not, it's not something that I
remember. So the problem
is, you know, I got told by my Oh no, moreover, I was meaning, like...
friends, Lieutenant Colonel, Stephen
Croft, then he said to
me, you know, to open a bank
account in the UK as a foreigner, you need to
be a Russian oligarch
or so there you are.
No, I understand. I'm moreover meaning,
like, as far as your
personal identity of,
like, lessons learned and things and how
is how is your personal journey been?
Well, personal, I mean, I'm not sure
exactly what you're asking, but you know,
the identity, you know,
some things stay with you. Sure. And
experience stays with you.
But the fact is, you know, I am
a Catholic, my
grandmother and my mother choose
to baptise me as a Catholic. So I tend
to, you know, I try to
honour their, their choice
with that. So, you know, being, being
sent a certificate of
baptisme in '98 in UK as a Catholic
wasn't very,
wasn't the greatest experience
for me, to be honest, but never mind, you
know, if I understand,
you know, the thing is,
it was still fresh from the Northern
Ireland, I mean, the
Northern Ireland conflict
is like, you know, really, really stupid,
you know, but I
understand, I understand the fear,
and I understand that it's not, it's not
a thing to be. So basically, my identity,
being a Croat is not easy. Sarajevo is a
majority Muslim population, and being
Catholic is not easy.
The fact is that every, every side
actually took their side and everybody
warred against everybody,
you know, it's, you know, it's something
that, you know, comes
with, with the territory,
you know, something that they get used
to, which is why what,
which is why I said what I said,
no amount of training can prepare you for
what you are actually
about to face in Bosnia and
Herzegovina. I understand. And it's like,
you know, walking down the main street,
yeah, very easy, very, you become
schizophrenic, pyromidal schizophrenic,
very easy, because people
tend to speak very loudly while they're
walking around the
street. And that's not something
that happens in the UK, does it?
No, it's much the opposite. Like you
already know the joke that we
always say is like, oh, you know, going
on in the street like the
French or the Italians, like, you
know, it's that kind of thing.
Yap, yap, yap, yap. It's like giving it this.
It's that friendly banter, mate.
Yeah, exactly. But not not being loud.
Like, that's not not
traditional, as far as that goes.
That actually does bring up another
query. Like, what, what strengths from
your service? Do you
feel like serve you well in your in your
every day? What what
particularly aiming with this question?
Meaning, like things that say someone
that worked at a coffee
house would not have had your
experiences. So, you know, your
perception of the world, like
things that made you stronger,
made you better. What what have you drawn
from all your kind
of military and intelligence
experiences? The thing is, I think,
once you give your word to someone,
it actually counts for something, to me
at least, you know,
people are, you know, it's a
gentleman's agreement, when you shake
someone's hand, and give
someone your word. I think,
for me, at least, it is something that
you follow through, no
matter what, you know,
it doesn't matter what circumstances you find Integrity above all else.
yourself in, your word is your
word. And it's something that
actually matters. So as a close
protection officer, I mean, you know,
I've, I've served with
a few people as a close protection
officer. Yeah. The thing is,
you know, my first client was
Rod Rastan. He was actually, then then it
was IPTF,
International Police Task Force,
back in 1999. So he was head of, you
know, Chief of Special Response Unit,
with regards to human rights being
violated by police officers. So, yeah.
Being a, I can see why people might have
him kind of marked. That's not not an
easy situation to be
in. The thing is, you know, being on his
detail, I mean, the guy's a
Baha'i. He's of Iranian descent.
And he was actually studying, and he got
his PhD from London
School of Economics in law.
So basically, he went on to become a
system prosecutor at The Hague.
Oh, gotcha.
He went from IPTF to EUPM, a brief stint
in Cyprus, and then back to The Hague as
a system prosecutor.
We're still in touch. That's what I can
say. He's a good man. He is
a good man. But the thing is,
you have to understand that you don't get
any, you don't get to make many friends
in this line of profession, especially
within the local community.
The fact is, international community and
people that actually do some
real work are not viewed as allies. And
the fact is, you know,
what's happening in Gaza
is not something you, you are often asked
to comment on that. And I try not to,
particularly because of my colleagues And that's okay. That's okay.
that are of Muslim descent.
Because there is a difference between Sunni and Yeah, and there's no need to get into it.
Shi'ite, like in Christianity,
there is a difference between Sunni and
Shi'ite Muslims. And you
have to understand that
Muslims in Bosnia and Herzegovina are
Sunni, and they're not
allowed to interpret Quran
and the writings of Quran. So that's
something you should know,
should be aware of at least.
I understand. So you've kind of touched
on it already. But what
does your next chapter look
like? Are you planning on, say, starting
your own business as far
as personal protection?
Starting your own business in Bosnia and
Herzegovina or anywhere is a huge gamble.
And you need to have good finance. So
that's not an option for
me. I'm not that brave. Sorry.
I mean, I'm not an entrepreneur, and I'm
not thinking of actually
starting my own company.
But, you know, I'm exploring options for
Lockheed Martin through a connection.
And I'm exploring options with different
companies as an executive assistant.
I am experienced administrator and
project assistant. And should anyone
look for an effective and efficient
communicator and executive
assistant, please contact me.
I'm open to negotiations and to discuss
potential employment.
I love it. I'm not looking for management
positions, if that's what you're asking.
No, this was more so just a broad stroke
to understand what's on
the plate next for you.
So I'll ask this one as well. What do you
want people to
understand, like, you know,
think civilian world. What do you want
people to understand about, you know,
your experiences or,
in general, the military and intelligence
community that they probably don't know?
The fact is, I mean, kids don't watch
Steven Seagal movies. I
mean, I mean, I'm actually
going early with this because you told me
it's going to happen. So kids,
well, we'll get to that in a moment.
Steven Seagal, Jean-Claude Van Damme, and Mr.
Schwarzenegger don't think by any means,
I mean, these it's,
they're made for entertainment
purposes and entertainment purposes. And
you will learn very
fast. If you do ever join
the forces, armed forces, you will learn
very, very fast that it's
not a one man show. And no,
you cannot actually beat the whole army
by yourself. I mean, you
know, it's just, you know,
so, so stupidly inaccurate, inaccurate,
that, you know, I mean,
I've, I never thought it would be
possible. I mean, my, my, my common sense
dictates me to understand
that one person can't beat
like, you know, 100 soldiers within two hours. Well, I say this...
I say this quite...
I say this quite often, but common sense is not
common. You know what I'm saying? Okay.
You know the saying common
sense cannot be taught and
experience can it be, cannot be bought.
You know, that saying,
right? Yeah, I do. So, you know,
I need, I need to not comment further on that.
No, no need to, but
you've touched on it and we'll
get into it. But what's, what's a telly
show or film that's either,
let's say so bad that it's
hilarious or so, or even like so
accurate, like going the other way that
you go, Oh no, they really
nailed it on the head, like relevant to
your experience.
Irrelevant to my experience.
Oh no, relevant. Relevant to my experience.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, I'll tell you what my favourite movie is.
Yeah. Maybe I'm getting ahead of time
ahead of, ahead of it. But
my favourite movie is actually
"Rules Of Engagement", because it actually
shows clearly
how some people are prepared
to scapegoat an honourable officer or
people actually serving their
country for political reasons.
Okay.
It's so easy. It's so easy to throw a
man's career under a bus just
because you want to get ahead
or you want to find a scapegoat for, for,
for, for something
that's not comfortable.
Um, so basically, you know, that's pretty
much, much it. You know,
I, I am actually,
I'm just waiting for someone to, to try that
on me.
Let's hope that's not the case. There is no honour
among, among thieves or politicians, you
know, I, I'm fully aware of
that. So, you know, it just,
you know, it's just a very, very, very
bad thing over here. And,
you know, I mean, perhaps,
uh, "A Few Good Men", that's not a bad
movie either. "A Few Good Men" with Tom Cruise. Do you feel like that one's kind of
hit it on the head as
far as procedure and things? I mean, you want the truth. You
can't handle the truth, man. That's,
that's a great line.
You know, that it's very true. You know,
the thing is that the
sheer arrogance, um, that can
be actually done and portrayed only by
Nick Nicholson, Jack
Nicholson. You know, it's just,
you know, it just perfect. You know,
I mean, I love it.
No, that's brilliant.
so they are, you know, I mean, if I'm, if
I'm getting ahead too
much, please, uh, please, uh,
No, good sir. No, this is all brilliant. But I
mean, that, that concludes
this. I mean, thank you so
much for coming, Vedran, and for people looking
to connect with you, uh,
how is best to find you?
I'm available in LinkedIn. Um, anyone who
wants to, anyone who wants
to connect, um, is free. Um,
you know, I, I mean, I, I operate under
present laws and obligations
that I have. So, uh, to me,
as a citizen of Bosnia and Herzegovina
and Croatia, um, laws apply, um, and to
US citizens as well.
So anything that is within legal
boundaries, um, of actually assisting or
doing, I, you know, I will
happily do, uh, and provide for, um, with
no, actually, you know,
it's, it's my job. Okay. So,
um, strategic, uh, partnerships, uh, are
very welcome. Um, anyone
looking to do business in
Sarajevo, Bosnia and Herzegovina, or
anywhere in EU, you know, please contact
me. Uh, I'll do anything
in my power to assist you, um, and help
you. Um, you know, and no,
you know, uh, you know, I don't,
I don't ask for extra cash or,
financial, um, you know, I'm
not, I'm not corrupt. So there
you are. I mean, if I can, if something
can be done, um, and it is
within the legal par,
parametres, um, you
know, I will gladly do it.
So there you are.
I love it. Well, we have more brilliant
stories coming soon. And if
you'd like to support the,
uh, show directly, please
join The Tribe on Patreon.
Cheers all.